Westco - sometimes need a boost [Archive] (2024)

keali'i

10th August 2000, 09:35

Got the battery about a year and a half ago.

Most of the time, it is fine (good 12v charge). But there have been a few times when I had to charge/get it jumped.

This shouldn't be happening right?

BTW, ALL electricals are off each time I shut off the car. Just a habit of mine with any car. So, I know it is not because I left the interior or parking lights on.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
keali'i
www.keohi.com/kuulei (http://www.keohi.com/kuulei)

craig910

10th August 2000, 10:26

This shouldn't be happening right?

Funny I should see this post - I just installed a brand new Westco battery in my Miata on Saturday - yesterday (Wed) it went dead!!!! I put my 8 year old Panasonic battery back in temporarily til I can get the new one checked out - it must be a dud -makes me very angry

Richard/92C

10th August 2000, 12:30

I'll be very interested to know how your WESTCO problems are resolved! My Panasonic is in it's 9th year and I had planned to buy a WESTCO at the first sign of Panasonic weakness.

Regards,
Richard

[This message has been edited by Richard/92C (edited 10 August 2000).]

Rugger

10th August 2000, 19:38

My westco goes dead (click dead) after about 10 days. I can charge it with a 2amp over night or jump it and drive about 20 minutes, and everything is fine. If I drive the car at least once a week, I have no problems. Gel batteries are wierd.

Make sure that there is no drain on your system. The easy way to check is to take off the battery cable and see if it sparks. Small spark, ok. The radio needs to keep the clock working. Big Spark, theres a drain other than the clock.

Richard/92C

11th August 2000, 07:29

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rugger:
........ Gel batteries are wierd.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gel cells do have a higher "self discharge" rate than AGM, BUT THE WESTCO IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN AGM DESIGN!!! Is there a problem with WESTCO's design or quality?

Richard/92C

16th August 2000, 08:34

Just trying to bubble this one up the list to get attention. Anyone else have WESTCO experience, good or bad? is this post cause for concern?

Regards,
Richard

JURYJT

16th August 2000, 09:31

I stayed with the factory battery when my original gave it up. Check with your local Miata club chapter about discounts from local dealers for members. I got 20% off the price at the dealer, which made it cheaper than Westco, when you include shipping and I didn't have to wait for it to be shipped to me. Plus if something goes wrong I just take it back to the dealer.

Just another option.

Richard/92C

16th August 2000, 12:55

I would love to "stay with the factory battery" (Panasonic) but I thought that Mazda had switched to a different replacement battery that is not AGM? (I've not checked with my dealer.) Locally, Batteries Plus offers a 33AH gel-cell as a replacement for $65 IIRC but after my Panasonic experience, I prefer another AGM type.

Regards,
Richard

ewijon

16th August 2000, 13:09

The Westco battery in my 91 has worked flawlessly since I switched out the tired old stock one.

Sure sounds like you might have a drain. It's been a long time since I've done it, but isn't there a test that you can do to check for drains? Something like hooking up a volt/ohm meter between the disconected lead and the battery terminal it was removed from?
With the radio/clock fuse removed you should not register juice? I don't remember, might not be the same for modern cars. Surely someone on the list has automotive electrical experience with diagnosing drains and can elaborate.

-Jon

Rickmann1

4th October 2000, 20:57

This same problem is happening with my WestCo battery. Less than 2 years old - Now it won't turn the engine - even after I trickle charge it for 16 hours at 2amp/hour rate. When I use 'jump leads' the car starts straight away!

I fired an email to westco enquiring about the '4 year' warranty BUT I am still waiting for an answer.
Does anyone know if they live up to their warranty claims?

Red of course

4th October 2000, 21:56

msw143

5th October 2000, 00:25

HobGoblin

5th October 2000, 08:21

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by msw143:
Solve your Westco battery problem with an Optima yellow-top battery replacement. Expensive, but worth every penny. Particularly useful if you have a heavy load of electrics with a lot of draw (big stereo, the wrong alarm, etc).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you provide more detail on this battery please? What does it cost in US? Sounds like anser to prayers http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Hob

WestfieldMX5

5th October 2000, 09:57

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rugger:
Make sure that there is no drain on your system. The easy way to check is to take off the battery cable and see if it sparks. Small spark, ok. The radio needs to keep the clock working. Big Spark, theres a drain other than the clock.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another trick is to disconnect a battery cable and to put a lightbulb between the cable and the battery post. The bulb shouldn't light up (tiny bit is acceptable for the clock etc)

Frank
http://come.to/miata

Jim Chilenski

5th October 2000, 11:08

I bought a WestCo battery for my 96 M-Edition back in Spring, right after the new design came out, and haven't experienced any problems. The car has sat for as long as two weeks with the factory alarm system armed and never failed to start.

I would suspect that you have a heavy drain somewhere or else an altenator problem. I would have the altenator tested.

Jim

spider94r

5th October 2000, 11:15

I've been on a Westco for about 2 years now. No problems.

Kevin

Richard/92C

6th October 2000, 07:30

Rickmann1

6th October 2000, 22:14

Here is the scoop - My WestCo battey died after 18 months of use. BUT the more that I look into this, the more that I feel that I am to blame. I had fitted the conversion to the 'day time running' lights in the parking lights (2 x 45 watt halogens) and had inadvertantly left the lights on a couple of times - leaving the battery completly dead upon return to the car (moral here; fit the lights on reminder!). Whereas the WestCo battery is very good in many respects it does not take kindly to being totally drained, and the battery is very quickly irreversibly damaged by this type of abuse.
Steven Gresham from WestCo explained this to me and took the step of insisting that they still honor the WestCo warranty despite my self-confessed stupidity - Incredible!

So now I am very happy and await delivery of my new WestCo battery a thoroughly satisfied customer. Richard you should go and buy that battery (just remember to turn your lights off).

WestfieldMX5

7th October 2000, 07:06

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rickmann1:
Whereas the WestCo battery is very good in many respects it does not take kindly to being totally drained, and the battery is very quickly irreversibly damaged by this type of abuse.
Steven Gresham from WestCo explained this to me and took the step of insisting that they still honor the WestCo warranty despite my self-confessed stupidity - Incredible!

So now I am very happy and await delivery of my new WestCo battery a thoroughly satisfied customer. Richard you should go and buy that battery (just remember to turn your lights off).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't understand how you can be satisfied with a battery which, like Westco apparently admits, is irreversible damaged when it gets drained? Seems to me that these batteries are a bit too sensitive. I can understand that you're happy that they gave you a new one, but that shouldn't have been necessary in the first place...
Don't think I'll be getting the Westco when my Panasonic dies (hopefully not too soon http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/smile.gif)

FUGGMEISTER

30th July 2001, 00:38

MiataMeister

30th July 2001, 08:34

Nearly all batteries will not regain thier charge if completely drained (the exception being Ni-Cad's, but those aren't in a car).

While I don't have the WestCo the PO had a lead acid put in my 92B. I'm about to pull it - which is why I'm interested in this thread.

However, if you connect an amp meter between the battery post and the battery connector you can determine how much draw there is on the battery. Unfortunately, if you don't have a similar Miata to check against you don't have a reference point to determine if the reading is good or not.

Common failures that could cause the problem you're mentioning is alternator or voltage regulator failure. Sometimes when one of these fail they provide a discharge path for the battery resulting in the appearance of a battery problem. I don't know if you have them in your area, but AutoZone has a diagnostic device that they will hook up to your car to determine what has failed. Reading AC voltage at the battery to determine diode failure, volatage levels, etc, across a variety of rpm's. Some other parts houses have similar devices they will hook up for the same charge as AutoZone (Free - Gratis - No Charge - gotta love that price).

Another option is to start pulling fuses one by one with the amp meter hooked up to the car to determine what's draining the car.

RedR

30th July 2001, 11:14

I just went through this problem. I installed a Westco back in March '01. I drive it almost every day. I have not added anything electrically since Dec '00 (bought car in Nov '00). Last week I went out to go to work and it would not start. I checked the voltage and it showed 11.95 volts. I charged it at 2 amps for 4 hours. It now showed 12.75 volts. I put it back in and check the current draw. I had about 200 miliamps of draw (radio, VDO clock, alarm, though not armed). The car started up. I went out the next morning and it barely started but I drove it to work. I called Westco and explained what I had done. They said that something internal must have gone bad and they would ship me out a new one. End of the day at work and the car BARELY started. I drove one of my other cars to work the next day. Came home and there was my new battery. Installed it and everything has been working fine since.

I have to say that it did suck that the battery went bad but Westco's service has been great! There was no hassles or problems. I didn't even have my reciept, they were able to look it up on thier computer. They don't even want the old one (which I am going to use for testing 12v equipment). This has been my experiance, for what it is worth. http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Pallendo

30th July 2001, 11:34

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Richard/92C:
I'll be very interested to know how your WESTCO problems are resolved! My Panasonic is in it's 9th year and I had planned to buy a WESTCO at the first sign of Panasonic weakness.

Regards,
Richard

[This message has been edited by Richard/92C (edited 10 August 2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know what you mean, My panasonic is on it's 10'th year and I am gonna be so upset if a replacement Wetsco (What everybody and their dog recommends....) doesn't live at least 5-7 years without an issue.....

Wonder how to find another Panasonic.....

-Peter

MiataPaul

30th July 2001, 11:56

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pallendo:
I know what you mean, My panasonic is on it's 10'th year and I am gonna be so upset if a replacement Wetsco (What everybody and their dog recommends....) doesn't live at least 5-7 years without an issue.....

Wonder how to find another Panasonic.....

-Peter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You could allways go to Japan to find one! I am actually going to look for one before mine goes bad in every junkyard. I hope to find a late model one that is only a few years old. just a thought. Perhaps a few folks could get together and see if we could get a pallet shipped over from Japan.

RagerXS

30th July 2001, 13:32

The Panasonic battery 'group buy'? You could start a new thread to see how many are interested, though I doubt you could find enough people. I'm sure everyone wants one as a replacement (including me), but I doubt enough of us need one all at the same time...

My suggestion is to contact Moss (because I think they are the biggest Miata related vendor with the most clout) and see if they would be willing to start stocking the Panasonic battery.

Does anyone know whether or not you can get these from the dealer?

~ Fred

Dennis Nicholls

30th July 2001, 15:03

kohai

30th July 2001, 15:08

tedder

30th July 2001, 15:38

I haven't had any trouble with the Westco battery. The article in the garage states:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
One of the differences with the AGM battery compared to the wet-cell battery is the recharge rate. That is, how fast you can put energy back into the battery. With a wet-cell battery you can "quick charge" it at about 20 amps or more. Usually this is when you would boil the electrolyte right out of the battery. The AGM batteries require a lower charge rate, for a longer time period. If your battery will not crank the engine, you should charge the battery at a rate of 1 amp or less for 18-24 hours. If you try and charge it like a wet-cell battery, you will destroy the battery.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It actually said that the Panasonics were the same way, stating the following:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
... mechanics who tried to "quick charge" it found out they quickly ruined it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-ted

Bill Strohm

30th July 2001, 16:55

My '90 workshop manual says maximum dark current (ignition off, radio off, etc) is 20 mA. My base car (no radio, no alarm) pulls 11 mA; probably the ECU.

I find my in-dash aftermarket voltmeter very useful. Turn on the ignition and see what the battery voltage is before startup. Watch during driving and verify the alternator voltage is 14.2V. This car seriously needs one, due to its "unconventional" battery design, IMHO. My original battery "lasted" only 2.5 years; the Panasonic dealer replacement is still in the car 9 years later. Maybe because I see problems coming before they kill the battery, and put it on a slow charge overnight.

---- Bill

John Yang

31st July 2001, 12:15

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by HobGoblin:
Can you provide more detail on this battery please? What does it cost in US? Sounds like anser to prayers http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Hob<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Optima is one of the major automotive AGM battery manufacturer in the US. The same battery is also marketed by Interstate under the "extreme" label. The red top (and orange top) is their starting battery line and the yellow top is their dual purpose/deep cycle battery line.

Optima batteries are sized approx
7.8"H x 10"L x 6.8"W

Compare to the Westco
7"H x 7.7"L x 5.12"W

The Optima battery that might fit the Miata is the orange top with the reverse SAE terminals. The only drawback might be the length is over 2" longer than the Westco.

The plus part is that the orange top has 750 CCA (vs. 475CCA for the Westco). The cost is ~US$125, weighs 38 lbs, and is shippable by air.
www.optimabatteries.com (http://www.optimabatteries.com)

Pallendo

31st July 2001, 12:42

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by John Yang:
Optima is one of the major automotive AGM battery manufacturer in the US. The same battery is also marketed by Interstate under the "extreme" label. The red top (and orange top) is their starting battery line and the yellow top is their dual purpose/deep cycle battery line. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty sure that the Optima is a standard Lead/Acid battery that is Spiral Wound, not AGM. It's a Gell Cell, last I heard.

-Peter

Nevadabob

31st July 2001, 16:40

As author of the Miata battery article (http://www.miata.net\garage\battery.html) in the Garage section, I thought I would put my $0.02 in here.

The WestCo is an AGM battery, just like the OEM Panasonic. As such, you should not charge it at a rate higher than 2 amps/hr. A good recharge should take 18-24 hours.

The Optima battey is also and AGM, but spiral wound. The spiral winding greatly increases the surface area of the plates, in comparison to the Panasonic/WestCo type of AGM. The greater surface area means much higher capacity. The problem with the Optima is they don't fit in a Miata. You have to "make it fit." That, along with the weight and cost make it an unreasonable replacement for the majority of Miata owners. Only if you have larger power requirements (massive stereo, lights, disco ball, etc.) would you need an Optima.

All in all, the WestCo should work just fine. If you want a Panasonic, go take a test drive in a new Miata, they all have one in the trunk!

Anthony aka Nevadabob

DMan

31st July 2001, 17:05

John Yang

31st July 2001, 17:52

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pallendo:
Pretty sure that the Optima is a standard Lead/Acid battery that is Spiral Wound, not AGM. It's a Gell Cell, last I heard.

-Peter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>From the Optima Battery website
OPTIMA® batteries feature two thin lead plates wound into a tight spiral cell, with an absorbent glass-mat in between to hold the electrolyte solution<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe Optima batteries are AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat). Optimas can also be boost recharged at 60 Amps for 2 hours.

[This message has been edited by John Yang (edited 31 July 2001).]

Pallendo

31st July 2001, 17:53

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by John Yang:
I believe Optima batteries are AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Learn something new everyday! Wow. Now I wonder why those things are so much heavier than the standard Miata AGM. (Most of the purpose of using an AGM in the Miata was correct weight....)

-Peter

Nevadabob

31st July 2001, 19:08

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pallendo:
Learn something new everyday! Wow. Now I wonder why those things are so much heavier than the standard Miata AGM. (Most of the purpose of using an AGM in the Miata was correct weight....)

-Peter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh- No.

The main reason the AGM battery was used in the Miata was for safety. No liquid to be spilled, very little gas to explode (unless you crack the case), non-detectable corrosion. The weight advantage was a secondary benefit, as was the longevity (with proper care).

Anthony aka Nevadabob

Dopey

31st July 2001, 19:34

G'day and greetings from downunder.

I have just been reading through this thread. I had an issue with my 9 year old Panasonic battery last year. I replaced it with a new Mazda supplied Panasonic battery.
Soon after replacing the battery it died again. Turns out I was (still am) having a problem with the 'combination switch' which controls the headlights/indicators/wipers.

Here is a link to a previous thread regarding the issue that a UK owner and I had.
http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/002255.html

Good Luck.

Dopey http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Snake Oil

1st August 2001, 09:55

Seems to me that I saw an announcement for another replacement AGM battery for the Miata on this site. Took a look in the Garage and sure'nuff, there it was. Below is an excerpt from the article. Anyone have experience with this one??

American Battery Corporation has introduced a new player to the Miata replacement battery scene. Their American Eagle battery is an AGM, just like the original Panasonic and the WestCo. In addition, it is slightly smaller in size. This smaller size is a good thing, since the terminals are reversed like the first generation WestCo. Since the battery is slightly smaller, the short cables are less of a problem when making the connections. SDMC member BRIAN GOODWIN has been using one of these batteries for several months in his '94 Miata and likes it very much. The list price for the American Eagle Battery is $80, same as the WestCo.

While the reversed terminals might seem to handicap the American Eagle battery, the specifications make up for it.

Battery Cranking amps
new (wet cell) Mazda 370
WestCo 475
American Eagle 530

[This message has been edited by Snake Oil (edited 01 August 2001).]

Shawn1069

16th August 2001, 02:20

RepoMerlot

17th August 2001, 01:30

When the bank repo'd my car from the unfortunate PO, the battery was dead, so they replaced it with a regular acid battery. As soon as I got the car I ordered a gelcell from Westco, and have had no problems. Fast service, too. I ordered online on sunday night and UPS brought it to my doorstep thursday afternoon. Mine has the vent line hookups, whereas a friend has an older Westco that doesn't. When it had the regular battery in it, sometimes when I was stopped at a light, I'd get a whiff of acid smell coming through the trunk panel. Not very pleasant.

Dave